wooot! lets hope they be true!
x-fi is basically all i want right now, but the wi-fi with messaging would be a phenomenal step up, i know many that would easily get a pmp that had that instaed of texting on cell's!
i dont mind flash anymore since it seems to slim down the player,
and as for the silver backing... ewww i hope not, it would seem too ipodish i would think... if they do have silver backing imma have to get a bse and hope they make it look slick like
[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 03:07AM ]

Sounds promising! Let's just hope it comes to fruition ... and soon!

...yes flash!...
...down with hard drives...
...sounds awesome!...

yay theyre makin their way back.
then zen v replacement wud prob be a nano competitor (like da fuze i guess)

too bad they didnt just call it the vision:x that would sound way cool
and hopefull they will provide tactile controls, or a wired remote plz!
and they best have a big screen at least as big as my ZVW!
[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 03:12AM ]

damn, i want hdd.

HDD

sounds great, but the most important thing Creative can do is to release it. flash was inevitable, to the disappointment of some (including me) - we have had this discussion, and flash is the best move for Creative.

wireless MSN sounds coolish - though Australia has very little wireless coverage = phail here at least, but different storage in singapore / US.

ZEN V 2 sounds good - but i fear it will compete with the ZEN

I think alll this sounds very positive!! Not sure we need a new zen v tho! O wel, still ultra cool!

Not really all that impressed. Once again this device will likely be step behind. Web browsing is a must, as you will see with zune 3. Touch screen is a no-no unless you have it mastered like apple. Don't get me wrong x-fi is awesome, I have mine on my pc at this moment, but it will definitely kill the battery and who wants a 10 hour dap. Its cools that the x-fi technology is progressing and a maybe down the road it will be better implemented, but right now I'll sacrifice some sound quality...(my ipod touch doesn't sound that bad if you properly rip music and encoded in vbr) but the pda-ness of my touch has saved me from carrying several devices and constantly swapping them. I still love my zvm, but as I recently decovered ipods rule because they are innovative and that innovation is implemented pretty well. enjoy you supped-up zen. woo-hoo. glad i finally broke and bought the ipod. I was tired of waiting and this is the best new I get...more speculation. if creative had decent marketing we would know what the hell this device is and does. I stick to watching creative stock plummet on my touch!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh !!

Me happy !
SOME NEWS !


Thoughts :

- Zen X-Fi : Name sounds awesome! Right TO THE POINT ! And It has X-FI ! Damn expecting this player ! X-Fi rules!

- A Lot like Creative Zen .. hmm.. I HOPE ITS BIGGER ! I want a bigger screen like 3 inches !

-Wi-Fi Sharing thing is cool ! 3 day is crap ! Sharing other files would be cooler ! No Web Browsing ?
Well Web brosing on a 2.5 inch screen is BULL !

If they have Instant Messaging ..
Then I'm sure It's Touchscreen !
how will you type then ??

- Flash is alrite I can manage, It saves space too !

- Zen V replacement: awesomeness !

Also changing the Zen to just 8 GB max will Make MORE users BUY the new Zen X-Fi . (nice thinking)
[ SO The Price might be similar !!!!! ]


Questions !! :

1. WHEN ?
2. HOW BIG SCREEN ?



[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 04:38AM ]

@ry-guy: "i recently decovered ipods rule because they are innovative"
discovered
*cough*whats-different-since-the-first ipod*cough*

@Varuna: "I HOPE ITS BIGGER"
thats what she said...
"Sharing thing is cool ! 3 day is crap !"
i am sure we can get around that

But as SSJ said this is just a rumour - dont get too excited

Nah.. Just opinions !

With creative the unexpected flop is always possible

WHAT no hard drive!! omg...
the 32gb better be reasonably priced i hope.
[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 05:23AM ]

meh, not really worth the wait IMO.

these rumors are not too exciting. I anticipate nothing more than mediocrity.

The only positive i see is sd integration, which i expected by this point in the zen's lifecycle anyway.

Like a lot of others, I need a player larger than 30Gb, so it seems like my waiting has been in vain once again...

If the rumors are true, it will be just another mediocre player from creative. Nothing innovative with it. My next dap will probably be the iPhone, especially if it is 3G. I have a HTC Wizard now and I am so used to calendar and contacts and other PDA qualities like email and web browser. The Share doesn't excite me, neither does creative nowadays.

I hope its not touch screen.. I rather have physical buttons for play, stop pause, skip.. no need to look at the screen when on the go!

Looks like the the Zen vision M and the zen vision W were the last of the creative HDD ie larger storage space. shame

Glad they got rid of the name zen share, sure it can be a name for feature but not the name of the player.

Zen X-fi is good cause the name is synonymous to quality sound, sure the there's been some heat in the creative camp but the fact is X-fi is still a brilliant piece of technology. hopefully they go for a more matte surface then the shine as fingerprints are a pain. I hope we get manageable battery life. This and some noise cancellation earphones will go well on a long flight


touch screens are such a fad...

Iphone PDA wannabe.

why bother surfing the net on shitty screens like that. short periodical moments sure but anything else. she'll be right!

another mediocre player dseaver, I beg to differ, sure its not the earth shattering evolution but its promising.
seriously... iphone... seriously!? haha


[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 09:04AM ]

flash is the way forward as long as it has a properly implemented sd card slot. I am assuming this will be pretty cheap if they are discontinuing the 16gb/32gb zen

I sure would like a Creative 160 gb player with FLAC support. Is that too much to ask?

[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 10:02AM ]

Wow,
apparently someone is to cheap or has never actually touched an iphone/touch. its the only decent way to browse the web and smudges? the sceen is of such descent quality that you only see them when powered down. Smudges do not come into play. If they do I suggest putting down the bag of chips. zen 2 blows, creative has once again dropped the ball. At least apple knows what people want.

We'll at least we have something to look forward to -whether good or bad. We'll since what actually comes to light when it comes out.

Apple knows what people want? Well, I know I don't want an Apple. I like buttons and have no desire to serve the internet on the go and don't want to pay for the function to.

This new Zen player doesn't excite me either but that's because I'm very happy with my 16gig Zen. I waited years to replace my Zen Neeon and to me, it was worth the wait.

nownownow ry-guy.
its to the point where apple controls what most people want.

Does anyone know roughly when the Zen X-Fi will be released? I'm really looking for a replacement for my ZVM, and the sooner the better, I guess.

i think there were rumours for around July or August?

Apple doesn't know what people want. THEY want people to have what they force upon them. Thats why we have a massive surge with everyone wanting videos in H.264 in a MP4 container.
[ edited Apr 16 (2008) 11:25AM ]

Well, if it's gonna be that long 'till it comes out, then my next question would be: How much will it cost? I want the 32GB, at least, and if it's gonna be like 300-400 bucks, then I'm just gonna buy a Zune 80, or the Archost 605 WiFi. But if it's like <250 dollars, then I might wait 'till it comes out.

So, even if it's just a rumor, if anyone has any idea on the price of the 32GB version, let me know.

I will say this in reponse to the touchscreen smudges. With the Touch you don't see smudges or fingerprints unless the screen is off. With the screen on they aren't even noticeable.

I wonder how many people who have a 60gb ZVM would buy this new flash based player? I certainly wouldn't. I am looking for more HD space, not less. What would i benefit if i replace my 60gb ZVM with the new Zen X-fi? Not much. Why would one want Wi-fi for sharing music? Doesn't the other person need a player with Wi-fi too? It's not that popular, is it? And touch-screen and X-fi, what a waste of time! Looks like it's going to be an iPod Classic 160gb for my next player. Maybe Apple might even release a completely new High End, even Higher Capacity Player soon...who knows? Shame about Creative.

Indeed. 32 GB is nowhere close to enough space. 60GB on my ZVM barely does it for me. I'm hoping for at least 64 GB of flash, or more. If not...I don't know. There's no players on the market right now that meet even half of my requirements like my ZVM did

I'm sure a few months down the line, Creative will be the first with 64gb. They were first to 16, first to 32, I'm sure they don't want to be second to 64.

Otherwise, this still sounds really nice.

It doesn't matter who is the 1st to have 64gb flash. It's still not enough memory and it will be very expensive. Why have increasing gigs of flash memory when we already have high capacity HD (currently up to 160gb)? I heard somewhere flash memory is not that reliable and have a certain shelf life. HD may even last longer than flash.

Creative should not compete with Apple as there's no competition. Instead they should try to be 'different'. i.e maybe just focus on high end HD players, high end Video players, etc. Similar to what Archos are doing. If and when Apple releases the ultimate high end player, it will be the end of Creative as Apple will have dominated this market 100% instead of 90%. Apple will have a player to satisfy everybody's needs across their range whether it's flash or HD, budget or high end.

hmm... I never really tried Xi-FI but the name sounds cool anyways. But PLEASE just one request Creative... Please make the screen 24 bit! The ZEN and the Cowon currently have the one of the best screen clarity today on daps. I'm still shameful on apple that even the touch has only a 16 bit screen.

I bought the ZVM as soon as it came out, which actually still works ver well. This time, I am going to wait to see if it is good. I really hope it going to be a good player.

Even from the rumors, this player doesn't seem to be that impressive. Assuming EVERY one of the rumored features is actually present in the player when it comes out, there's nothing really new except a battery-draining X-Fi Chip. The Touchscreen has been nearly perfected by Apple with it 480x320 multitouch screen, and WiFi sharing has been in the Zune for quite a while.

I really hope the screen resolution is higher than QVGA (320x240). If it's not, then there's really no way to effectively surf the web even if the player supports it. IMO, at least 480x272 (WQVGA) is required to read text without too much scrolling around. Also, I hope for Creative's sake that the battery life is decent with the X-Fi chip. The iPod Touch gets over 22 hours of music battery life with the screen off, and around 5-7 hours of video depending on brightness. The new Zune gets similar numbers, so if Creative's new player doesn't deliver on the battery life front then there's not much going for the Zen X-Fi.

X-Fi sound really is great, those of you who don't have an X-Fi soundcard in your pc are really missing out. I would also like to echo the 'first to 64GB' guess, as that only seems logical. They fit 2x16gb in the 32gb, it seems plausible that they could hit something like 48gb then 64gb, but prices at first will skyrocket. Also, we don't know any battery drain tests, so it could be possible that the battery does not actually drain. What excites me most though is the messenger use, which those of you have astutely pointed out means a keyboard likely leading to touchscreen. Wi-fi podcast syncing and everything hopefully. Though Creative's software has never been all to spectacular...
I am extremely stoked for this!
But above all else, keep it affordable, guys! You'll never gain share by selling it way up. Ask Cowon how that's going.

I wonder how many people who have a 60gb ZVM would buy this new flash based player....

I would if 1) it's any good; 2) it's affordable (under $350); and 3) it's available in at least 32 GB. I have no problem with flash players since they're not as delicate as HDDs.
[ edited Apr 17 (2008) 02:17AM ]

Suz, you would rather lose 30gb of space for extra features like x-fi and touchscreen? It fascinates me how people's mind works!!

brahmasoccer09 they could hit 64GB just for kicks. make it expensive and it wont sell that much. BUT. prices will go down sooner or later and Creative then can clai m first prize.

The have to be competitive with apple in terms of dollars per gig to survive. IMO i see another flop coming if this rumor is true

Pity they couldn't hit 320gb HD for kicks too! Bet it wouldn't be more expensive than 64gb Flash.

I know, that sucks duckie008 !

agree moorey !

If they will get it wrong this time, then its probably over for them.

With the Touch, I doubt if they will defeat Apple !

Creative youre reading all this rite?

and IFF they DO release something like it ... Apple would have released something better "(now rumors that they are working on )

Do you think they're using the X-fi chip or do you whink they will reproduce the effect of x-fi through software like they do it with the sound blaster xtreme audio?
I don't know it you can reach the same effect thru software but I can guess that wouldn't drain battery, or at least not as fast as the chip and it wouldn't need more physical space nor increase the price of the plsyer

what do you think?

I actually had that idea of using msn or yahoo messenger thru a dap. if it really is true I hope they do it right and like many have said if would need either a small keyboard like a cellphone or an onscreen keyboard that could be implemented in a touch screen for a faster writting.
It could also be used to make "phone calls" using those services which would make the calls free or charge around the world. people would only need to be connected, or maybe even better they could receive a notice of a call even when the player is off but that would need wi-fi always on and that would drain the battery fast... I know this one sounds even less believeable but one can dream, right?

its too bad they can't take their first prizes for 16GB and 32GB to the bank. it doesn't seem like either of those did them much good.

Unless this thing has integrated flash, I'm buying a zune

True about claiming first to 16GB and 32GB; who cares, since it seems like it did them absolutely no good. There's a difference between something being sturdy and being a brick. I would be interested in this new player if it is affordable and has a touchscreen since I'm done with tactile buttons.

I'm not going to be in the market for another full size DAP until my Touch dies...but I am interested in Creative's replacement for their smaller players. I currently use a 1 GB Zen V Plus for running, and when I break it, lose it, or simply outgrow the 1 GB I might buy the next-gen small Creative player if it's good.

Well I am interested but it needs to be out pretty soon and look a lot better than the Zen which I don't like at all. From what I've heard about the features of the generation 6 Archos players creative may have a hard time keeping me as a customer

ry-guy



You lost me at the part where you're assuming I'm too cheap and never played with a touch before - wrong on both accounts and that really has nothing to do with anything unless you're implying apple is overpriced? AND the part where you say apple knows what people want, I can only laugh at as there's no explanation needed!

Fad - A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.

Maybe apple is a fad

All I know is that I don't care for this touch screen madness - most of all in a mp3 player, as I like to be on the move without having to revert back to looking at the screen.

If they implement buttons with the basic play, stop, skip then I will reconsider (I have explained that many times in different threads). Touch screens in general have been around for a very long time, I would love a cintiq, a tablet pc. Smudges mudges, I put up with that on my zen but it doesn't mean I care for them nor will it be such a deal breaker on any other product I get that attracts smudges.

The Zen X-Fi isn't even out yet, your basing your point on creative dropping the ball on that and this article?

I think you should stop talking, you're looking idiotic in my eyes. Just some friendly advice
[ edited Apr 17 (2008) 06:44PM ]

Two words: Can't wait!

i definitely agree. would be pretty sweet if they made it a pocket PC device (WM6) for third party apps.

but then again that would be unnecessary its a DAP. that is what actual pocket PCs are for

Zensen,
I agree with you in a way.

In the End, Its all about the Sound !

Thats the Main aim of Mp3 players.
With X-Fi, hopefully it puts Creative on the right track !
they have said before that they want to get back to basiscs: To Create a Good Sounding player !

nuff said !

Varuna, you are right! It is about the sound and hopefully they deliver without killing battery life. I know I'm excited about a x-fi player and had almost bought myself one of those aurvana x-fi noise canceling headphones for my zvm but it was the battery life but mainly the sound leakage that had me think twice...

I still want to get one, just need the price to drop some more.

Just like digital photography in its purest form people will generally go for quality of the photo (less noise etc because I know I do being a digital photographer) whilst in the digital audio player market, creative have been up there when it comes to sound reproduction. Hopefully this is something they will market on.

Zensen, while I respect your opinion, touchscreens are where things are headed and if you don't like them then I'm afraid you will be disappointed. I personally am finished with tactile buttons. It's all touchscreen all the time for me from now on out

God I hope they don't make everything touchscreen. I really don't need touchscreen for everything. And I definitely don't need or want one for my phone and my mp3 player. What's wrong with buttons. I like them, they are cool and I don't have to look at the screen each time I want to do something simple.

If touchscreen is the way things are headed, then the future sucks.

Suz, you would rather lose 30gb of space for extra features like x-fi and touchscreen? It fascinates me how people's mind works!!

What's wrong with wanting all that? Touchscreens can be a hell of a lot of fun if done properly (e.g., Samsung's P2 and the iPhone). Given Creative's standards, I think their touch player could have top shelf potential. Besides, I think 32 gigs at minimum would provide adequate breathing room for me. If they make a 64 gig player that's slim, lightweight, and affordable, I'd jump all over it! As I like to say, to each their own
[ edited Apr 18 (2008) 01:29AM ]

Cardfans - why do you think that no one uses tablet PCs?

No one uses them because they haven't perfected them yet

cardsfan. I'm not against touchscreen, I just don't care for a touchscreen mp3 player (I don't know how many times I have to say that but that's okay) and the fact that people feel the need that it needs to be on everything.

Tactile buttons are great, its the same reason some designers still stick with large crt screens because it produces better colour output but lcd displays have made leaps and bounds. There are benefits to touch screens as can be seen with virtual qwerty keyboards on phones but the fact is still there, its not always responsive as compared to a tactile button..

Nothing wrong with a tablet pc. they just have slow hardware for its price and their screens are aren't as good, at least for a designers perspective. It is good as an expensive note-taking device

Touch enabled devices have been here for ages, they've matured in its technology and become popular among consumers. Things will calm down.

Be thankful that some fashions are only a fad - hyper coloured shirts and fluoro shirts anyone

So whens the next HDD Zen coming out? never? Im begining to doubt that Creative even care about there consumers. Apparently they read this site, but not closley enough it seems.

If they dont release a HDD player with-in the next year ill be forced to stop listening to music (on the go), or buy a iPood

Really cant be arsed with hearing bad news over and over again about Creative, they used to be a good company, not the impression im getting atm

Daniel

I don't know when people are going to realize that for the most part HD players are dead. Someday flash will be the old technology and we will be moving on to something else, racetrack anyone? In another year a 64GB flash player will be affordable so everybody just relax. Also, zensen I don't really see the correlation between LCD/CRT and tactile/touchscreen but anyway, I couldn't care less. Touchscreen all the way for me now, I'm through with tactile buttons

no more hdd's from creative. that just sucks. i may have to go to eBay and get one of those old Zen Xtra's and upgrade it to a 160GB hard drive. good SQ and high capacity.

and CF as i respect your opinion, not many will agree that tactile buttons are useless. and if the new zen is all touch interfaced-i'll get one anyway and use my zvm for school since i can operate it in my pocket

I don't think tactile buttons are useless I just think that touchscreen makes it easier to navigate around a player

I have to agree with CardsFan. Although I am rather new to forums and posting, I do read a lot and am floored by the vehement defense of creative. Yes creative was innovative and made/makes great sounding players. I have own a variety of creative players and spent years defending my use of them to the masses around me. It was neat to be part of a small committed community and know we had a superior product in our hands. But I am afraid creative lots it edge big time. Maybe it apple's marketing, maybe Jobs IS brainwashing the masses and 'forcing us to use apple products on his terms' (a concept that still makes no sense, as true open source really never produces anything refined or as easy to use as corporate software-programmers have families to feed too). Yes I bought an iPod touch (or my wife bought one for me), and yes it was a huge pain to convert and re-rip much of my digital library. But everytime I hold my touch I forget out my zvm. We had some good times together, and yes I really like buttons, but man spend a day with the touch and you'll forget about buttons. Yes touchscreens for the most part suck, which I really discovered while playing with an Archos 605. Using a fine stylus is not for me--hence the touch, which is touch screen done right (at least on a small device. As far as the X-fi player competing I am sorry that just is not going to happen, creative is falling further behind. Yes its great when music sounds great...I have my X-fi on right now, but who walks around with $2-300 headphones to really enjoy that sound quality. I juggle between some cheap Senn px100s and some $14 sony ear clips and my music sounds great on my touch (granted I think it all comes down to ripping and encoding and how good your ears are). And an instant messenger or limited w-fi sharing????? Come on creative, didn't you see the reaction to that crap with the 1st zune it was a flop, and if you are really into messaging over wifi get a touch, which is going to be much more useful for that feature. As far as capacity...Yeah I have like 20,000 songs in lossless and aac 128. Is 32 gb big enough? Yes of course. The key is accepting that you only really listen to maybe 5-10% of your collection and do not need all of on you at any given moment. I have to admit that was a difficult step for me, but one that really comes down to software, something again lost upon creative. With iTunes I can whip out playlists in seconds containing basically anything I want. I just started using iTunes after 10 years of using WMP, winamp, and mediamonkey primarily (but atleast a dozen more in there), and have been blown away by iTunes. Yes its a resource hog, yes its kinda slow and has a few bugs. Yes the library system is completely different from everything else. But it comes together with the player in a way nothing else can. Make your lists, sync the lists you want on Monday, come Tuesday when I am want classic Rock on my player rather than Indie, I sync again, but select some different play lists and WHAMMMM, my touches library has been swapped out in minutes with all my song info (times played, ratings, last played, etc, stuff I never had in any other player, but find SOOO useful now) has been retained to my PC library for Wednesday when I want some indie rock and brit pop. Over the years of creative products I never really found syncing to be practical and struggled with juggling playslists (especially as WMP always recopied the songs leading to sometimes 2 or 3 copies of the same songs on my zen). I never really got upset because I hated apple and its strict rules and because everyone at forums like said their software sucked ect. I thought this was it and wished for a change someday in the future. Needless to say I was pretty pi$$ed to find out this 2 weeks ago when I made the switch. Yes great players are important, but you must have good software to match and creative provides crap and will continue to provide crap. and WMP and winamp are not that great. WMP blows completely and winamp looks like something I would find on my parents old IMB from 1988. Yes apple make product for the masses, ie stuff that basically anyone can use. Granted I am pretty ok with computers and have very capable friends who work in the industry to answer any questions I have, but I am sorry I am a busy busy person (grad/vet school, kids, other jobs) and I don't want to spend hours tweeking every last component of some open source player/software or deal with the awkwardness of crappy software. I want my songs on and then off my player with the playlists I want at that moment and ipod/itunes has afforded me that option. So let go of carrying your huge libraries around, find some decent software that lets you sync in the easiest way possible and you'll be find without you fragile-a$$ 100TB HDD. Second flash allows players to be thinner and lighter. Yeah I really enjoy my zvm in my pocket constantly pull my jeans down. I understand thin players are scary for many...fat finger and hand will crush them, or the player may end up between the "FOLDS" (in the couch of course . And if I hear one more complaint about buttons...Are you all that lazy where you cannot take your hand out of your pocket and hold your player to your eyes and change the song. mrfajita, I am sure pocketed hand is much to busy with other things in your pocket then your player. so I understand why you are apprehensive about removing your hand from you pocket. Touch screens are about interaction, not blind ease of use. That is the whole point of the ipod touch, you get to interact with you music, photos, ect. and trust me its true. The only thing keeping the player out of my hands are precautions against getting mugged for teh darn thing. And if you spent 5 minutes looking into the touch you see that hitting the home button twice brings a navigation window for music that is no different than tactile buttons. Now I can understand that fat fingers may present a problem to some. But the GREAT NEWS IS...these are all flash players so feel free to unglue yourself from that soft chair that you grown into and take your flash player to the gym, or for a walk. Its spring, flash based players are great for spring.

I must admit I am really furious at creative over this whole new player. Creative let me down, down, down. I checked for news on this new player everyday for months and when my b-day came my wife wanted to get me a new dap and I was so torn between waiting for the big news from creative (especially the rumor about wi-fi like no other), but she was persistent about an new touch and as usual right on the money. I was biting my nails for a few weeks and we made a deal that she would take the touch when the new creative player came out because I was so sure it was going to be a ipod touch killer. Man I about crapped myself when I saw this update the other and laughed and laughed. I have never been so disgusted with the decline of a company in my life. They have a loyal consumer base and keep crapping on them. Now not that apple doesn't crap on us, but quality does come with a price tag. So you don't like touch screens great, get an iPod classic then. Support is there, the software is there, and despite what everyone bi-cthes about compatibility is there. Creative does not listen you all drone on and on about what you want. If they did they might have a fighting chance, but I think the only good thing to consistently come out of Singapore are my Nikes. I guess the 8 year olds of today just don't make daps like their predecessors. I'll be sure to send my still new zvm the same direction and my last dump, right down the toilet next to its manufacturer.

I cannot help but feel creative is still knocking two rocks together to make fire while apple has already begun refining natural gas for heat and is moving on to nuclear power

Well said, ry-guy. This IS a Creative fan site, after all, so naturally the defenses of Creative are to be expected. I thought like many of the people on this forum did also (buttons are better, HDD>flash, etc) until I actually played with my friend's iPod Touch. Prior to that, I had owned several Creative players...Zen Micro, ZVM, and Zen V Plus. I was a big Creative fan, and naturally looked down a bit on the unknowing people who were still using their 5G iPods. However...just 10 minutes with my friend's iPod Touch in a Buffalo Wild Wings convinced me to sell my ZVM the very next day and buy an iPod Touch. That's how good the player was. In a word, revolutionary. After 4 months of using it, installing many useful apps after jailbreaking, and watching videos/listening to music, I can genuinely conclude that the Touch is brilliantly designed. It is the best DAP I have owned to date, even eclipsing my ZVM.

Basically my point for all you stubborn Zen lovers out there...find a friend who owns an iPod Touch and spend just 10 minutes with it...you just might change your mind about Apple products forever.

996gt, well said but sadly there are some hardcore Creative people who will never truly listen to the message you're putting out there. I was vehemently anti Apple but that was before I actually experienced any of their products. I was just regurgitating the things I heard other people say. Most who say that Apple has crap SQ have never used one for any amount of time. I had the same experience but for me it was an Iphone but since I already had a phone I went and got a Touch and I've never looked back. It is, regardless of what anyone says, a brilliantly designed product. It does so many things and does them all well. It's expensive, I will admit that but the other side of that argument is that it feels expensive in your hands. It feels like quality and for those who are too stubborn to ever even give it a chance all I can say is that it's your loss.

996gt2: While the Touch is a very nice piece of hardware, it doesn't remove my biggest beefs with Apple products: Syncing with no manual control over your files like MTP and UMS allow, and less than stellar video codec support.

The Touch supports H.264 as does the Zune 2 and I don't hear anyone complaining about the Zune. Also, why would you want to manually sync something that is capable of holding thousands of songs? Seems like a lot of work that I would rather let a program do for me.

I never said H.264 was a bad codec. However, a majority of my collection is in DivX or Xvid, Neither supports them.

As for the syncing, most of my media is video, I don't listen to that much music.

This new bit of "news" is nothing new. I heard that this news update was going to be about something we didn't already know, not more rumors. Many of you people are getting all worked up about rumors. Everything, down to the name, is just a rumor.

What I find most annoying is the very idea that Creative will include both X-Fi and Wifi in their new player. (and possibly a touch screen) I'm not an expert, but I know that Wifi alone takes away a lot of the battery. Then you throw in X-Fi? The battery would have to take up half the player, if you want any good audio or video playing times.

Also, what about the sizes of components? Again, I'm no expert, but I remember seeing Creative's Xmod, and though the big silver button took up a lot of space (just for show), the actual white part of the thing took up quite a bit of space. So, if you have something that big and then you throw in Wifi, the huge battery that will be needed, and all the other components, then the player will end up huge.

These are just my thoughts on the subject. Again, I'm not an expert with the above, just stating what I think is roughly correct.
[ edited Apr 18 (2008) 09:52PM ]

Kaze,

iTunes does allow you to manually sync to the Touch; I'm not sure if the manual sync on iTunes is what you are looking for, but you can drag and drop individual songs, albums, artists, etc to a Touch to create your own mobile music library however you want (as long as you have a bit of time to spare in putting it together song by song or album by album).

As far as the video support goes...I did enjoy the wide variety of codecs that the ZVM supported, since I rarely had to convert video files. However, with my Touch I don't find conversion to be much of a hassle. Using a program called iPodME, I can convert a full length movie to H.264 in 10-20 minutes, and TV shows only take 5-10 minutes on my self-built machine (2.75 GHz OC'd Athlon X2, 2 GB DDR2-1000). Granted, some people's computers are not as fast, but if you let videos convert overnight or w/e you can get a whole bunch done without much hassle.

Also, iTunes will let you manually sync videos and photos as well, so you can drag videos one by one into the Touch as you see fit. All you have to do is uncheck the box "Automatically sync music and videos" in iTunes.

Personally, I find iTunes to be pretty good at managing my 15GB+ music library and transferring media to the Touch. I actually like it better than the Windows explorer based solution used by the ZVM and ZVP. With my ZVP, I've now ditched the default Creative software altogether and am now using Windows Media Player 11, since syncing in it doesn't require a lot of hassle in moving around folders and whatnot, as you would in explorer.

By the way, Kaze, my situation is similar to yours in that most of the stuff I carry on my Touch is video. Granted, I mainly use my Touch to surf the web, chat on AIM, and read RSS feeds, but I do watch a good amount of videos on it. I can attest that using iTunes to transfer videos is relatively painless and the videos on the Touch look much better than they do on the ZVM due to the higher resolution. (480x320 vs 320x240).

@ ry-guy "a concept that still makes no sense, as true open source really never produces anything refined or as easy to use as corporate software-programmers have families to feed too"
umm....firefox?

if you like itunes simplicity try mediamonkey. it really is a great player and you might be pleasantly surprised.

yeah - i am only a Creative fan as long as they make quality products. Which they arent really doing as of lately.

@ Ben B: people have dismantled the xmod. it really is quite small, just a tiny circuit board that had doubles of what would be in a DAP anyway - but to make it sturdy and look cool the plastic is large.

I also see a problem with putting xfi and wifi in the same device. Battery problems are what we have been continually told is holding up an xfi dap and now they want wifi? I will be surprised if it has both and if it does I can't wait to see what the battery life is.

whats the ZVM battery life? i've only ever not been able to use it from flatness once or twice - so battery isnt an issue for me. its not as if you'd have the wi-fi on all the time and x-fi cant take THAT much power can it?

phones seem to do alright and they must take more power then x/w-fi??
i think a ZVWish battery is needed though

77 comments half are arguments between a player that wont be released for TWO MORE MONTHS and the iPod Touch. and ry-guy nice essay there.

and as i'm pretty sure i said before, if this player disappoints, to all you who think im completely anti-apple (including my old avatar that i took down soon after using a friends Touch) i will probably get a touch but keep my ZVM (8gb of music is not enough to keep on me)

@moorey: Creative created the Xmod without a slot for batteries, you have to use your computer's usb slot to power it. I'm assuming that means a lot of power is consumed with X-Fi.

Well, my main argument was about the battery life. I did a simple google search found this article:

[Linky]

After reading that, I'm a bit more excited for a new Zen. Hopefully, they will be able to integrate it..

the only reason the xmod isnt battery powered is because then no one would buy a new x-fi player (apparently).

Sorry to bother everyone here again, but I'll try to be positive this time. mrfajita made you a made a good about the direction of these comments, but this argument is necessary. If ipod touches sell, which apparently they are selling just fine (just watch ebay or head to your local college campus), we could say say creative is entering a battle alongside Archos 605, the touch, probably an iriver something (p30 maybe) and several other high players. We have the zen for the mid-range, so I thinks it fair to assume the zen x-fi is the high models.
So we must discuss the merits of other daps in comparison to what we know about the x-fi, a necessary evil yes, but we can hope that out of this someone at creative would happen to glance this way (this is THE creative knowledge site after all) as we are a key component of the consumer. Small but dedicated, we are the free advertising for their products. If creative can observe this discussion maybe we can provide insight into if this player is even worth further development. Somebody should start a poll for voting in approval of specific features. Maybe, doubtful, but maybe someone will listen. Maybe constructive criticism could save the zen x-fi? I can forgive software and live with WMP, but I will not pay money for another archaic zen product, when I can just buy some that actually does more than my still beloved zvm.
I understand waiting patiently until this player comes out, but this is it for creative, sink or swim, so it may be time to start considering other options.

the touch sells - yes. but why? because it has cool features? no. but because apple made it. whatever apple makes sells - because people see apple as 'cool' - why is this so? because alot of people simply dont care about anything else. walk down the street and most people wouldnt have even heard of creative. let alone even think about buying a creative player.

it would be naive to think that you could sell x-fi to the average user. its like selling a PC on the basis of being quad SLI 9800GX2. it means NOTHING to the average buyer. they will just buy the PC that looks shiny, or cause it comes with a special keyboard - regardless of how much more it costs.

Creative could give everyone on earth free players and people would still buy ipods.

if there is one thing i have learnt from Apple it is that a large proportion of the population seem to have absolutely NO IDEA about anything. alot of mainstream media is designed for idiots, to appeal to the readers stupidity. this planet is packed full of hopeless dumbarses and THEY are who creative MUST appeal to in order to succeed.

Hey fair enough moorey, but surely you can appreciate the touch as a dap with many useful functions (maybe even as an all around great media player)? Sure people buy it cause its the newest apple toy, but it is actually a pretty power toy though, especially if you jailbreak it.

I will say though, apple does make good devices, not junk, and you must make a distinction between brand buying and providing a product whose ease of use appeals to an extremely large consumer base (something creative definitely lacks)

Moorey, I thought you had changed your ways but I can see you have not. To start with I think you give those who buy Apple too little credit and those who hopelessly stick with Creative perhaps a little bit too much credit. The Touch sells for a lot of reason, chief among them all the many interesting things it can do. We've had this conversation so many times on here that it's getting a little old but why does Apple work? Not because it's cool as many would have you believe. It works because when you buy an Apple device you are buying into an entire ecosystem. Everything is streamlined for easy use. Itunes takes care of everything for you. It syncs what you tell it to sync. Downloads on a daily basis the podcasts that I tell it to download. Has wonderful playlist organization. Can I get all these features in other programs, of course I can but not all rolled into one and as easy as Itunes makes it. Itunes is why Apple works, bottom line. People like to belong to a community and that's what Itunes gives them. If you don't think I'm right then look at other companies that are trying to gain market share. Microsoft understands that an ecosystem is necessary and that's why they created there new software with Zune marketplace. Companies understand that beyond the marketing done by Apple, it all comes down to little old Itunes. Look no further than Itunes for the reason that Apple is in the throes of world denomination right now. Forget the cool factor, forget the people are idiots argument because all those are moot when you consider Itunes is what brings them all together. The population have plenty of ideas about a lot of things. Giving them this ease of use isn't appealing to their stupidity but rather appealing to their need to belong and their need for one thing in life to be easy. So many things are complicated in life, can't I just get a music player that I tell it what to do then I hook it up and it does it. Simplicity is where it's at. Without an ecosystem set in place, no company will dethrone Apple in the near future.
[ edited Apr 19 (2008) 02:42AM ]

i guess we have to agree to disagree.
i dont believe that an ecosystem must be locked in order for it to be good. MSes zune locking (although hacked) is no better then itunes IMO.

you obviously bought your touch not for the cool factor - but because it suits you needs. i have no problem with that.

and with the Creative players - i am all up for buying other brands of players that suit my needs - not being 'locked' is one of my needs. but nothing appeals to me the P2 came close but is $$ and no video out.

i really do fail to see how itunes is as good as what people say. ease of use may be a factor - but just how hard are other programs to use? i might be a bit of a freak. i seek control and to do everything myself. i like fiddling and customising everything. itunes wont let me do that.

what pisses me off is that i pull out my laptop and listen to music using mediamonkey. then i get people telling me that i am stupid and a nerd for using a different program, and for specifically not using itunes - you obviously havent done that - but that is what annoys me. OMG! he is different. GET HIM!
[ edited Apr 19 (2008) 02:59AM ]

Apple indeed make very good products, no one denies it, but let down by the sound quality (and yes, i have listened to the music from their players and not just saying it without experience). In my opinion, not up to par with the ZVM. Also, i use WMA which Apple doesn't support. Maybe if Apple did support WMA, the sound quality might just sound better??!!

duckie, no it would not. did you listen to the same files with the same headphones with the volumes matched?

@ ry-guy "a concept that still makes no sense, as true open source really never produces anything refined or as easy to use as corporate software-programmers have families to feed too"

Like moorey said, firefox, but there are better examples
Linux and Apache are used by many companies because of the stability and performance.

True open source has been found to produce BETTER software than commercial products. I could go on and on about this, I just wrote a paper on the importance of Open Source, so if anyone is interested, I'll post it.
[ edited Apr 19 (2008) 11:04AM ]

Moorey, if you like customizing everything then you couldn't be more wrong about Itunes. It gives you the option to customize almost everything about it. You can tailor it to your liking. And it isn't all about ease of use, it's the fact that it's all tied together with a managment of music, place to buy music, etc.

Like I wrote above, iTunes can be set to do everything automatically for ease of use, or it can be set for msnual syncing of every file...I personally do the latter since I like to be able to control exactly what goes on my Touch. The integration is flawless.

With Creative players you installed one program to transfer songs, a separate one to get podcasts, another one to get album art, etc etc. It ends up being one cluttered mess of programs that don't work in unison. iTunes takes all those separate programs and integrates them into a package that offers ease of use for novices and high levels of control for power users like us. I used to hate iTunes too, but now that I've actually used it it really isn't bad at all.

I finally got through your long-winded post ry-guy but again you use points that suggest people have fat fingers, they are too lazy and too idiotic to think of anything. sure its an opinion and that whole 8 year old crap, what? (I hope I read that wrong, it is late)

But I somewhat agree with you on open-source. Some programs are just terrible, I know since the company I work for have chosen cheaper alternatives then an expensive well known but trustworthy product. Sometimes that can bite you in the arse esp if you're wasting valuable time trying to figure out why its not working out whilst trying to meet your deadline...

other than that...

I can tell you one thing, apple certainly did things right by keeping the classic a long with bringing out the touch. It certainly is a good device but not great. There's no way Im going to using itunes again or quicktime considering how good os x (in comparison to their older os) is. Itunes is bollocks.

Cardsfan, it's alright, I was just suggesting that touchscreen has improved far enough to be readily accepted which is in reference to my LCD/CRT analogy.

I think a product such as the xperia by sony (a touchscreen phone with a slide out keyboard) is something I prefer which is basically the best of both worlds. Whether its justifiable in price to most people remains to be seen.)

In the end, it what screws you over less.

I don't necessarily agree with everything creative do, they aren't perfect, but I do think the x-fi as I have said earlier is brilliant. I would love to own a player with that.

On that note, Creative haven't wowed me since the zen vision m but neither have apple ipods since their first iteration. Is that bad of me, I don't think so but I do hope creative pick up the game, that's what competition is about and if they lose out then well, its a shame but I know other players on the horizon that I'd like to play with. Cowon, Iriver, Sony, I try not to limit myself.


[ edited Apr 19 (2008) 01:53PM ]

In THAT link above, by B B,

[Linky]

Creative says :


"We have some very clever engineers who are working on optimising the algorithms for use inside a new batch of Zen MP3 players."


What IDEAS come through your MIND ???


[ edited Apr 19 (2008) 02:05PM ]

iRiver is supposed to have a new HD player out this year. Can't wait. I love iRiver! I still have the H-120. Excellent little player with Optical input and output, voice recorder, FM radio and able to record via microphone, input jack or optical in WAV or MP3 format. Now thats what i call useful features, not gimmicks like x-fi or wi-fi. It sounds great too. Only downside is that it's only 20gb. Come on iRiver, i'm waiting for that 160gb+ HD, cos no one else is going to make one better than you!

@ Zensen "But I somewhat agree with you on open-source. Some programs are just terrible, I know since the company I work for have chosen cheaper alternatives then an expensive well known but trustworthy product. Sometimes that can bite you in the arse esp if you're wasting valuable time trying to figure out why its not working out whilst trying to meet your deadline..."

There are just as many crap programs out there that you have to pay for. There are many open source programs out there that have reached maturity and are great alternatives to commercial products: Firefox, openoffice, linux, apache, notepad++, just to name a few. I agree that there are terrible open source products out there, but usually its a single person, and there is no community behind it. Open source is very important, as it will create competition to commercial products.

To answer a lot of the things you guys might not know about the iPod Touch, I've taken a bunch of updated screenshots of my Touch and posted them here. Check it out if you have a bit of time, since it's basically a full tour of what a Jailbroken Touch has in terms of functionality.

[Linky]

To jump in on the open-source argument....anyone using a Touch or Mac and says open-source sucks is an idiot. Go look into what Apple built Mac OS on top of...a BSD distro. The BSD license doesn't require redistribution of source code like the GPL (the license most GNU components are under, as well as Linux, GIMP, ect), so they just gobbled it up, as has Microsoft.

Who cares what they built it on top of? It's not open source now. Watch who you call an idiot, we try to be nice around here

I never called anyone in particular an idiot.

Regardless, the BSDs are free software, and while Apple turned a fork of it into proprietary software, it proves my point that open source/free software don't suck.

You can't say definitively that open source or proprietary does or doesn't suck. Each has advantages.

@Varuna: that article is from march last year.
read this as well. still old. [Linky]

no OS truly sucks - just there are better alternatives
open source never sucks - its FREE! you have nothing to lose

@Cards: i really like having separate programs to do different things. it means that each one is simpler and can run by itself. well, each to his own. we will never agree.

surely you dont think that locking itunes is needed though? regardless of whether you like it, i still think that making you use it is just plain arrogant.

Cardsfan: I never said free/non-free inherently sucks.

moorey: "Open Source" and "Free Software" are meant to be libre -- free as in speech, not gratis -- free as in free beer. While most of it is gratis, the freedom is what's important, not the price.

That's the thing moorey; you aren't locked into Itunes. People use MM all the time and there are other programs you can use to sync with. We will have to agree to disagree because I will never see the logic in using 5 different programs when one would suffice.

Having a ZEN with msn is cool...
and if it the ZEN X-FI really has wi-fi, add an internet browser too! (preferably firefox)...
And looks like a iPhone?
"My source only saw the player briefly but mentioned a button on the left side of the player that reminded him of the iPod touch (or iPhone for that matter). Whether the device is touchscreen is still unknown."
Interesting...

Ok, everyone talking about the iTunes software and such should move that to the forum. Or even the chat box.

No offense, but I think the comments should be left for comments about the above news.

Really, after 104 posts you felt the need to say that? Discussing the differences between Ipods and the rumored Zen player would include a mention of Itunes, yes?

Yea, after 104 posts. All I'm saying is that this has turned into an argument about Itunes and that it would be better suited for the forums.

Itunes is a major reason some will never buy an Ipod. When debating the merits of a Creative player versus an Apple player it is inevitable that Itunes will come up in the conversation.

That would be me. I hate itunes although I like ipods, I think it's slow and now the most easy to use. It's nice that you can do everything with it but I don't think it does it the best way.

I was considering getting an ipod (classic) because I need more space but at the end I decided to buy a 2gb zen and save the money to buy whatever creative has in store for us in the near future. Anyway I didn't choose the ipod because of itunes, lack of specially video formats and I don't like the way music is categorized in it. besides it doesn't have radio nor voice recording which I don't use that much but it still use ocasionally.
I'm actually more willing to try the iphone than any of the ipods for the mere reason that I never use my cellphone for other than making calls and sometimes listen to music or play and take pictures, so I wouldn't have theproblem with audio and video formats as much as with dap's

Didn't like how it organized your music? Alphabetic to complex? By genera confusing? An Artist/Album/# Title folder system not your language? Wow.

Yes this is an argument for the ages. White or wheat, Coke or Pepsi, Pepperoni or Sausage, Cagney or Lacey, King or Koontz. These arguments have no end, as each will find merit in one or other. Great, to each their own. However, several of us have had a fair dose of both and feel the need to share our experience, some calmly and rationally, others, like myself expressing it an the most sadistic and offensive way allowed.

All several of us are asking is for all to consider their options. These devices are becoming more and more expensive (and we are in a recession people), so how you spend your bank is important. I don't like to waste money, my wife does, but I don't, so I make careful decisions. I and other would like to share this information we gained through these choices. What I primarily see is a lot of fear here. Fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of losing your perceived individuality (by owning an iPod). But most importantly I see a lot of whining/complaining (like children). The one thing I dislike most about these forums is anonymity. I am 28 and have lived some, but the way most complain here makes me feel like I stumbled into a grade school play ground. Now my mind is not as agile as it was 10 years ago, but I am still able to readily adapt even in the computer world, so I would assume the same of the young crowd here. Older folks have better things to do than this, unless they have a real question.
So what I am essentially suggesting is take a deep breathe, brace yourself, and prepare for impact cause it looks like the Creative 747 we got on all those years ago is heading down. This comment stream is supposed be a discussion of how excited/disappointed we are for this zen x-fi thing. Some us feel a little let down and we should. But look around the rest of the news posted here. Its all about Creative selling of the HQ, or posting a loss year after year. Change is definitely upon us.
Now I can understand hating Apple, but remember apple is just the Microsoft, and there always has to be a villian. Did I make every attempt to support creative, yes i did. Have I juggled 15 different media players to manage all my music and video. Yes I did. Was I really happy with how it worked. I was...for a while. Then I went outside one day and said, the sun is bright, the air is fresh, and wow am i white. No more hours on the old pc for me, 'managing' my music. Really how often do you have to modify your music file information. I rip a cd or steal an album of bittorrent, modify the tag and wham done. Even when I had 9950 different media players, I only did one specific thing for one specific file type on each.

iTunes has essentially changed much for me. I can sync albums, songs, and actual real playlists, playlists that update themselves based on variables 'I' choose. And it converts music, rips cds, and all in tried and true top quality file types. Yes aac is not widely supported. Of course Windows will have trouble swallowing support of its rival. And most of the other 3rd party crapware doesn't support it either, why, because Billy, working out of his childhood bedroom in his parents house doesn't have access to the necessary computer intel? Maybe, or maybe he's not a very good software guy. I married into a family of programmers, one a CEO of research at both IBM and Symantec of for decades, and other working as programmers at other top corporations. One now is a Comp Sci dean for christ's sake. They laugh hard at all this so-called 3rd party crapware. Of course Apple isn't going to give you aac support. Does that make apple evil or control? NO, it actually means they are protecting their consumers from crappy software that will either melt their computer or waste their time. If you think itunes doesn't do something you want it to I hope you are either I comp sci major, or work in the industry, cause top people write this software, and you just need to read the damn manual.

Now you may find X-fi to the end all goodness for daps. Enjoy your 10hrs of battery life. If you rip your cds into a good format at a proper bitrate with vbr you will be fine. I have excellent hearing. I hunt and kill animals in the woods. I hear them silently creeping about on the windiest days. I hears things most of you wouldn't after 20 years of training. I DO NOT hear anything great from the x-fi, when my music has been ripped into a good format -aac is called advanced for a reason (although high bitrate LAME mp3s are not bad either just take up too much space). Now I have an entire library of old mp3s the were ripped into wma 128 then transcoded into mp3s that do seem to benefit from the x-fi (which I do own), but it basically is a trebbley mess as described here often. And my ZVM does not sound better than my iPod Touch. I have tried this with identical files and good headphones. So unless you encode your music at like 64kbs the x-fi isn't necessary, if you like trebble use the equilizer.

Wifi is pointless unless you have a browser. And firefox will not really cut it, but Opera will. But I wouldn't get your hopes up. If there was going to be proper wifi on this thing, it would be everywhere which browser was selected. Wifi syncing would be cool, but if I am already at my computer readying playlists and what not, am I that lazy I cannot attach a cord? No I am not, but it seems many are.

I made the switch. I saw the doomsday clock at 11:59 for creative months ago. I am sad? Some, but buying an iPod has made me happier. I spend less time playing with files and more time listening. iTunes plays all my music, shows all my cover art (and provides some pretty damn good quality art), while WMP 11 still cannot get tag info and artwork sorted out on a bunch of test mp3s. MM can, but even MM3 is unpolished.

Does it have a touch screen? I hope not as I feel creative isn't capable of matching the minimum standard set by apple. Stylus sucks and apple mastered the touch screen gestures that are amazing. Creative will only produce a mess is my guess.

So if you have stuck with this post this long, fear is something you will have to deal with. Creative is going down, and its time to consider your options. Buy a zen x-fi great, your probably the same sucker who bought a zen when it came out. Other great non-ipod players exist, but I am sorry and I think many more experts agree, but the Touch is dominating, fun, accessible, actually quite durable, and a great multi-tool. I don't regret buying one, my bank account does somewhat, but life is too damn short and I want to enjoy it now not later. iTunes is basically fool-proof, you have been either a new user or a complete idiot to screw it up. And its free. What does creative offer to compete? You can use 1000000000000000 different file types!! WHOO-FRICKIN-HOO. Get a converter. Allok makes some great ones. You can buy them or download them, whatever your conscience decides. Then you have all the same videos and music in 2 single file types. Bang, done, now they play. Why do I need 2084028239082 different types of video and music files? I don't and neither do you. Does creative offer software? Kinda, but if you can use it you must have been the chump who wrote or you have the patience of mother nature, cause it is the clunkist, most useless 10 programs I had on my computer. Yes that's right 10 frickin' programs just to do what iTunes does. iTunes can be a resources hog, but so are 10 programs. Does creative offer accessories. Kind of but not many. The day after I got my iPod was awesome. I could go into any store, yes any store and buy an accessory, even subway had accessories. Not so with creative.
Does having an iPod make you cool and one of the masses. No it doesn't make you cool, or a 'sheep' as I used to say back in the 90s. It simply makes you part a large community, one with plenty of support and everything good that goes along with communities. Granted creative has a community but it is rather small and elitist. Having an ipod does make you part of an 'ecosystem' (from above-great analogy), a refined integrated system to make your life easier and ultimately more fun. Jobs is crazy as hell yes, but he really believes what he says, and stands behind it. iPods will enhance your digital music/video, etc life. Fewer headaches, more frickin' tunes and fun. And no matter what you believe, Apple does produce quality goods. and in our modern world, expensive = quality. Sorry but that is the system you have been born into. I paid $300 for my 1st ZVM right when it cam out and only paid $100 more for my 32gb touch which was a huge upgrade.

Come to think of it I am starting to wonder why I even ever bought a creative player.

Those who are scared have every reason to be, but now is time to jump ship and avoid the implosion that is creative. Give alternative a try, why it is still you making the choice, because I can see many of you are psuedo-control freaks (control is just a perception but you'll figure it out). 'The switch' is rather painless, necessary, and most importantly COMING. Creative has failed us, and its time to take our american dollars elsewhere.

I realize as I close this down, that this will be followed by a nosensical stream of babble about how crappy ipods and itunes are. But as cardsfan and others haves pleaded, 'please try before you complain'. I know many of you haven't done this cause you would likely stop posting about such matters. Really you would. I made and survived 'the switch'. My hair grew back, I lost 15 lbs, my penis grew 3 inches. All true because of my ipod touch. What are you waiting for???????????????????????

I must agree with cardsfan that any conversation about ipods must include itunes as the two are linked together to the death.

I agree with Ry-Guy about Creative going down. They arent making anything truly great so whilst it will be a loss, its more of a 'meh'. Creative sinking is no reason to dislike apple though.

The thing about x-fi is that when your music is at CD quality it is NOT needed. i know that. But NONE of my music came from CDs, and the fact is that it has alot of scratches and clicks and 'noise' in it. mainly cause most of my music is very old and made when audio equipment wasnt nearly as good as it is now. But yes - for the true audiophile - it is pointless.

"NO, it actually means they are protecting their consumers from crappy software that will either melt their computer or waste their time." Yet you complain about others saying that itunes is bad, but then declare everything else to be utter crap. Maybe YOU are the one who hasnt used other programs? You then finish you post be saying that any responses will be garbage? wtf?!

"My hair grew back, I lost 15 lbs, my penis grew 3 inches. All true because of my ipod touch." This isnt fanboyism how? YES, creative WILL die. But that doesnt mean i must suddenly get an ipod now....why would i go out and buy a new player simply cause the company that makes mine will die?

Maybe you have had some really bad experiences with non-apple DAPs and software, but i am the opposite. Everything Apple is just a pain for me, i am the 'IT' guy in my house and i am left to make itunes work and to find solutions to get around Apples bullshit.

Look - we will never agree - but if you are happy for the right reasons then continue to be happy. But for many people (albeit a smaller %) ipods will never suit their needs.

Well, I was thinking of getting an iPod, but after all that BS from Ry-Guy, I have now changed my mind......


lol.....


Seriously, I haven't seen an estimate for this player's arrival to market......anyone know??

No one knows anything. If Michael knows he ain't talking, at least not yet. I can understand people's frustration with Creative and while I may not have the material for a long rant I can see how after the ZVM was released people got their hopes up because it was such a nice player at the time and they couldn't imagine what Creative would come up with next. Problem is they haven't done much and that was over 2 years ago. I'm not angry about Creative's situation but instead a little sad. Waiting around, in today's marketplace, on one company to see what they're gonna do is a little bit tired. There are so many options out there to buy it isn't even funny. Apple is the largest of course but there are countless others. Toshiba, Sandisk, Cowon, Iriver, Archos, Samsung and Sony just to name a few so waiting around on Creative is something I quit doing the day I bought my Touch.

I get your point ry-guy but whatever I have said is based not on what people have said to me about ipods and itunes, it's based on personal use.

the fact that I have never bought an ipod because of the reasons already stated, doesn't mean I have never used ipods nor itunes. I have, that's why I can say I don't like them. and it also doesn't mean I don't like them at all, there are some things I don't like and too bad those things are important enough for me to make the decision not to buy an ipod. like I said before the only one I'm a little interested in is the iphone. other than that I would go for a zune which is another player I don't like at its whole

A little bit of advice from someone who has been buying DAPs for a long time: if you are waiting until you find the perfect one you will never stop looking because it doesn't exist. Because each person is so different there is bound to be something, no matter how insignificant it may be that someone can find wrong with every player.

Interesting Forum :


[Linky]